351
1 that democrats were being accused of doing?
2 A That was -- it was not my job. I
3 think I described my job. But -- but it's
4 not something that -- sure, it's something
5 that -- as generally described as you just
6 put it, certainly I'm sure that it happened
7 or that I did that.
8 Q And I'm just trying to get you
9 focused so I can ask you this question and
10 maybe you will remember, what office or what
11 persons in the White House handled either
12 gathering that information internally or
13 getting it from the DNC, that type of
14 information?
15 A Do you want to restate that?
16 Q What's the conduit of information
17 that the DNC gathers of the nature that I've
18 just described? How does it get from the DNC
19 to the White House? Who handles that?
20 A Again, I think a lot of it is
21 public -- I mean it's press releases and
22 things like that. I have -- you know, I have
352
1 contact with the DNC. It wouldn't be -- it
2 wouldn't be out of the ordinary for a press
3 release to come across my fax machine or --
4 or that kind of information and -- you know,
5 I might share it with people --
6 Q Who did you talk -- I'm sorry. Go
7 ahead. Are you finished?
8 Who in the last year have you
9 talked with the most at the DNC on business
10 matters?
11 A Probably their research director.
12 Q And who is that?
13 A Doug Kelly.
14 Q Doug Kelly?
15 A Correct.
16 Q And under what circumstances did
17 you talk to Mr. Kelly?
18 A Variety. He and I are personal
19 friends and certainly a -- for work-related
20 reasons there's -- there's any number of
21 reasons that I would talk to him.
22 Q What are all the reasons that you
353
1 talked to him in the last year?
2 A All of the reasons I talked to him
3 in the last year?
4 Q Uh-huh.
5 A I couldn't possibly -- I mean you
6 don't mean that literally. You're asking
7 me -- what are you asking me?
8 Q I meant it literally.
9 A I couldn't answer it literally.
10 Q You can't answer it because you
11 talk to him frequently, correct?
12 A Sure, yeah.
13 Q How many times do you talk to him a
14 day?
15 A Possibly there are plenty of days
16 that I don't talk to him at all. I wouldn't
17 say it's regular.
18 Q On the average?
19 A There's, you know, sometimes I talk
20 to him quite frequently. Sometimes I don't.
21 But I'm not -- I'm not saying that I don't
22 with him. I certainly speak with him.
354
1 Q How many times a week, roughly
2 speaking?
3 A For the sake of accuracy there are
4 weeks that go by I don't talk to him, but
5 let's say it wouldn't be surprising if I
6 talked to him a couple of times a week, three
7 times a week, something like that, maybe more
8 certain times, maybe less certain times.
9 Q In general, why do you talk to him
10 a couple of times a week?
11 A Again, any number of reasons.
12 We're personal friends. We socialize
13 together. We also -- you know, his office
14 and my office, to some extent when it comes
15 to administration of record, as I described
16 to you, a large chunk of the work we do is
17 keeping the administration record on issues.
18 A lot of times, you know, they will be
19 looking for updated accomplishment sheets or
20 they might be looking for if we have
21 education talking points type material
22 that -- that they're -- someone at the DNC is
355
1 looking for and certainly also, you know, I
2 wouldn't say that there aren't times when he
3 I just sort of shoot the breeze about
4 politics or what's going on. Certainly
5 that's occurred.
6 Q Who works with Mr. Kelly at the
7 DNC?
8 A A lot of -- I mean I -- I don't
9 know how many people. He's got -- he's got a
10 -- he s got -- don't know how many people
11 work for him.
12 Q Name some names. Who are his
13 closest assistants?
14 A Tough to -- I mean I don't know.
15 He's got -- I don't know if he's still got
16 the same people working there. People are
17 leaving.
18 Q All right. Whatever you remember.
19 See discovery is meant to find things out so
20 you can then follow-up on leads, so I need to
21 have the leads. Who do you remember he works
22 with?
356
1 A He works with apparently everybody
2 at the DNC. He works with the -- there's the
3 chairman, communications director, or I don't
4 think they have a communications director,
5 the press office.
6 Q Who are the people that he works
7 with the most based on your experience on a
8 daily basis, Mr. Kelly?
9 A Probably works with the people in
10 press.
11 Q I need some names.
12 A I don't know the names of the
13 people in the press office. I honestly --
14 there's a woman and there's a guy who share
15 the communications press secretary role and I
16 --
17 Q Who is that?
18 A There are two of them and I --
19 honestly I can't remember the names.
20 Q Does he have an assistant,
21 Mr. Kelly?
22 A Yeah.
357
1 Q What's his or her name?
2 A His name is Dan Fee.
3 Q Fee?
4 A Fee.
5 Q F-E-E?
6 A As in doctor's fee, as he says,
7 F-E-E.
8 Q You sometimes talk with Dan Fee?
9 A I can't remember the last time I
10 spoke with him.
11 Q Do you have a security clearance?
12 A I have -- I don't know how to
13 answer that. I mean I have -- I went through
14 the process for working at the White House.
15 To my knowledge, I don't have any specific
16 additional whatever clearance I have to work
17 there, but beyond that I don't believe I
18 have.
19 Q Do you have a top secret clearance?
20 A No, sir.
21 Q What is the level of your
22 clearance?
358
1 A Again, I'm, you know, whatever
2 basic level is to work at the White House. I
3 don't -- my recollection is that I'm not
4 someone who's got any special clearance.
5 Q Do you sometimes see classified
6 information?
7 A No, sir, I don't believe I ever
8 have.
9 Q Has anyone in your office?
10 A Not to my knowledge. Certainly
11 not.
12 Q Have you ever been to the White
13 House Office of Personnel Security?
14 A I don't believe so, no. I don't
15 know where it is, you know.
16 Q You're aware --
17 A I filled out my -- I just want to
18 be clear. I mean I filled out my -- whatever
19 process I went through to fill out my own
20 forms, for all I know I was at some point in
21 the office, but I don't believe so.
22 Q Are you aware that that's where
359
1 Craig Livingstone worked?
2 A Vaguely from press accounts, yes.
3 Q Have you ever read the book,
4 "Pillars of Fire"?
5 A I don't believe so, no.
6 Q "Dark Side of Camelot"?
7 A No. Now, that you say that, I'm
8 familiar -- I'm familiar with it, but I've
9 never read it, no.
10 Q I showed you previously this
11 statement by George Stephanopoulos which
12 refers to White House allies. You remember
13 that?
14 A Yes.
15 Q Have you ever discussed with anyone
16 who those White House allies are?
17 A No, sir.
18 Q Have you ever asked?
19 A No, sir. I, frankly, find it would
20 change on a day-to-day basis.
21 Q Who are the allies today?
22 A I don't know. I haven't been at
360
1 the White House.
2 Q Yesterday?
3 A I don't know. I -- honestly, in
4 serious the answer is I find it a fairly
5 useless term because on any given day the
6 Speaker of the House and Senator Lott might
7 be arm in arm with the President on a
8 particular thing and the next day they might
9 be calling him names down the street.
10 Q So from time to time Newt Gingrich
11 has been considered to be a White House ally?
12 A I don't think that would be a shock
13 to anyone, passing NAFTA or something like
14 that.
15 MR. KLAYMAN: Now, you've produced
16 certain documents here today and I'll ask
17 that the next document be marked as Exhibit
18 8.
19 (Janenda Deposition Exhibit
20 No. 8 was marked for
21 identification.)
22 BY MR. KLAYMAN:
361
1 Q It's a document styled, "The GOP is
2 Using Congress as a Permanent Committee on
3 Harassing the President." Have you seen this
4 document before?
5 A Yes, sir, I pulled it out of my
6 file to produce.
7 Q Was it in your file or was it on
8 your computer?
9 A It was in a file.
10 Q . What file was that?
11 A It was in a file in my drawer.
12 Q Do you know who prepared this
13 document?
14 A No.
15 Q How did it come into your position?
16 A It looks as if it were -- it was
17 faxed.
18 Q Where was it faxed from?
19 A I couldn't really say. I don't
20 recall having received it.
21 Q And I apologize if you just
22 testified to this, but what was the label on
362
1 the file that you pulled this out of?
2 A I don't think I did testify to it.
3 I believe it was something similar to the
4 title of this document, political, you know,
5 harassment of the President or something
6 similar.
7 Q This was one of your files?
8 A This was a file, yes.
9 Q And what else was in that file?
10 A I believe everything that was in
11 the file -- I want to be careful. I think
12 everything that was -- that's here was in the
13 file.
14 Q There is a document in here.
15 You've got the first two pages which ends at
16 the bottom, "GOP Shut Down Senate Hearings to
17 Keep Triad's Activities Hidden," and you've
18 got --
19 MS. GILES: I just want to be
20 accurate. I think there was another document
21 in the file.
22 THE WITNESS: That's what I was
363
1 trying to find out.
2 BY MR. KLAYMAN:
3 Q What was the other document?
4 A I guess it was probably a similar
5 vein, but different title to it. Maybe
6 like -- what was it? It was like campaign
7 finance areas are silly or something like
8 that. I don't -- I don't know. Something
9 along the -- those lines.
10 Q Who created the label for this
11 file?
12 A I believe I did. It appeared to be
13 my handwriting.
14 Q And what was the label again? What
15 did it say?
16 A I can't tell you specifically, but
17 something to the effect of republicans
18 harassing, you know, political harassment or
19 something along those lines, harassment,
20 something about harassment.
21 Q Why did you set up such a file?
22 A I don't know. Probably because it
364
1 was a -- one point when I was cleaning up my
2 stuff on my desk there was a collection of
3 stuff that I just put it all in one file and
4 wrote harassment on it.
5 MR. KLAYMAN: I'm going to request
6 a copy of the label, would you provide that
7 Ms. Giles, of the file?
8 MS. GILES: No, it wasn't
9 requested. It doesn't have to do with the
10 FBI files and no.
11 MR. KLAYMAN: Well, it certainly is
12 relevant to what you've already produced. I
13 don't know how you make the distinction.
14 MS. GILES: There's a reference in
15 this document to the FBI files. That's the
16 only reason it's responsive.
17 BY MR. KLAYMAN:
18 Q I take issue with that, but look at
19 the fifth page in. This is a memorandum, All
20 House Full and Subcommittee Chairman, from
21 Bob Walker and Jim Nussle, request for
22 information urgent, April 23rd, 1996. Who is
365
1 Jim Nussle?
2 A A republican congressman.
3 Q How did you come into possession of
4 this document?
5 A I can't say. I recall that it was
6 something that got a great deal of press
7 attention at one point and it was -- appears
8 to have been faxed at the same time that
9 the -- I don't know. It appears to have been
10 faxed in, then lumped together or it came in
11 with this other document.
12 Q Did this come the DNC, this
13 document?
14 A That's quite possible, although,
15 again, I can't specifically recall.
16 Q What, if anything, did you do with
17 this document? Why did you have it, Exhibit
18 8?
19 A I can't recall that I did anything
20 with it other than clearly I put it in the
21 file. That's -- I can't say specifically or
22 confidently that I did anything with it other
366
1 than it looks familiar. I probably read it.
2 Q Did you give it to anybody else?
3 A I don't recall having done so, but
4 I -- certainly it's possible.
5 MR. KLAYMAN: I'll show you what
6 I'll ask the court reporter to mark as
7 Exhibit 9.
8 (Janenda Deposition Exhibit
9 No. 9 was marked for
10 identification.)
11 BY MR. KLAYMAN:
12 Q Another document which you produced
13 today. I'll hold up Exhibit 9 so you have a
14 copy of it as well. What is Exhibit 9?
15 A It appears to be a copy I made of
16 my calendar that I have at work with
17 virtually nothing in it, frankly. It's got a
18 dentist appointment in there somewhere.
19 Q So the only thing you've ever
20 recorded in your calendar is a dental
21 appointment?
22 A I don't use -- I've been meaning to
367
1 write in birthdays and such, but I just
2 haven't had a chance to do it.
3 Q How do you keep track of your
4 appointments and meetings?
5 A Generally I'm notified by E-mail
6 and, you know, that's how.
7 Q Do you keep any other type of
8 calendar, a pocket calendar, do you keep a
9 calendar on a computer or does anyone else
10 keep track of your appointments or meetings?
11 A No. I wish I had such a person,
12 but, no I keep track of my own.
13 Q What is your salary level?
14 A My salary?
15 Q Uh-huh.
16 A That's been published in The Post
17 anyway, what the heck, it's $60,000.
18 Q Is there a grade at the White
19 House?
20 A If there is, I'm not aware of it.
21 Q I will show you what I'll ask the
22 court reporter to mark as Exhibit 10. Why
368
1 was your salary published in The Post?
2 A Washington Times actually. I'm
3 sorry. I misspoke.
4 Q Why did you make the big time?
5 A They publish -- they get great joy
6 out of publishing everybody at the White
7 House's salary once a year, so -- it was
8 about a month okay or something like that.
9 Two months ago. I don't know.
10 (Janenda Deposition Exhibit
11 No. 10 was marked for
12 identification.)
13 BY MR. KLAYMAN:
14 Q I'm showing you Exhibit 10. What
15 is Exhibit 10?
16 A That is the home calendar, less
17 informative than the work version I believe.
18 Q This is your home calendar?
19 A Correct.
20 Q This is what you keep at home?
21 A I believe you asked for it. What's
22 that?
369
1 Q What you keep at home?
2 A It was on the wall in my room.
3 Q At home?
4 A Correct.
5 Q Are these the only documents you
6 produced today?
7 A And the others that we already
8 looked at, yes.
9 MS. GILES: Yes, these three are
10 the only three that he produced.
11 BY MR. KLAYMAN:
12 Q Now, others in your office keep
13 calendars, do they not.
14 A I'm not aware of how they keep
15 track of their time or --
16 Q You didn't ask?
17 A No, sir.
18 Q In your office do you keep time
19 slips? Is there a way of keeping track of
20 the time that's being spent?
21 A I don't even know if I know what
22 you're referring to, but, no, there's no --
370
1 Q Is there any training of heads of
2 office in the White House to convey
3 procedures on how to manage an office either
4 now or in the past?
5 A I certainly can't answer for in the
6 past. If there is, you know, I think I must
7 have missed it. I'm not aware of it. I mean
8 there may very well be as one of services
9 that's offered.
10 Q Is there any instruction oral or
11 written given on how to retain records and
12 what to discard at the White House?
13 A My vague recollection is that there
14 is as part of the -- and, again, it's a vague
15 recollection, but I believe there is. That's
16 part of your orientation, when you become,
17 you know, a new employee, orientation
18 program.
19 Q Did you undergo that orientation?
20 A Yes, sir.
21 Q Who taught that orientation in the
22 White House?
371
1 A I don't recall. There are a number
2 of pieces of it, so I don't recall any
3 specific.
4 Q Is there any ethics training
5 provided in the White House?
6 A Absolutely, yes.
7 Q When provides that?
8 A The counsel's office. They have a
9 number of, you know -- everyone is required
10 to go for, I don't know, it's like a couple
11 of hour program where they go through, you
12 know, be aware of all the rules and whatnot.
13 Q What did you learn? What do you
14 remember that they taught you?
15 A There were rules about gifts,
16 whether or not -- you know, what type of
17 gifts, if any, you could accept, rules about
18 what -- if you began to search for your next
19 job, you know, what the rules are related to
20 that and if once you left the White House,
21 what the rules are as far as your contact
22 with people that are still in the White
372
1 House. Again, I believe there's a --
2 there's -- well, it's part of the ethics
3 thing. I guess, gifts.
4 Q Gifts, do they tell you you can't
5 accept gifts, I take it?
6 A Well, I think the rules are more
7 complicated than that, not quite that simple.
8 Q Told you you couldn't accept money?
9 A It dealt with like lunches and how
10 many lunches a year and all of that. My
11 simple rule is I don't accept anything
12 period, nor have I, frankly, I don't think,
13 ever offered anything, so --
14 Q Did anyone instruct you in that
15 ethics course concerning how you would
16 collect information, what types of
17 information you could collect in your
18 research capacity?
19 A As part of an ethics course? I'm
20 sorry.
21 Q Or any course?
22 A I don't -- no, I don't have any
373
1 recollection of anyone instructing me on how
2 to do research. Is that --
3 Q Well, for instance, did anyone ever
4 instruct you that you can't get FBI files to
5 do research?
6 A That's pretty much common sense. I
7 don't know what the rules are.
8 Q You don't have to be a rocket
9 scientist to figure that one out?
10 A Whatever the rules are, I've never
11 had a need to know them or -- I have no idea
12 what the rules are, but I'm sure there are
13 rules.
14 Q Was there any training given as to
15 what kind of documents when you leave the
16 White House you could take with you?
17 A I don't specifically recall.
18 Again, are you asking -- are you asking me
19 about the ethics training or just --
20 Q Ethics training or any training.
21 A I know somewhere in the process
22 there's -- well, I don't know. I'm sorry.
374
1 I'm not going to speculate.
2 Q You don't remember that?
3 A I have a -- I have a vague
4 recollection of something to do with not
5 being able to, you know, take -- or that work
6 product is defined as X or something like
7 that, but I don't specifically remember it.
8 Q Do you remember if you were ever
9 told as to what is a government document as
10 opposed to what is a personal document?
11 A I think I'm reminded of that, you
12 know, any time I'm on my computer I'm sure it
13 was -- I believe it was part of an
14 orientation, but I don't specifically recall
15 it. But I also am aware of on the computer
16 it pops up at you in various places, is this
17 a -- are you aware of what an official
18 document is, that kind of thing.
19 Q Why does that pop up?
20 A Just because there's -- there's an
21 automatic process to --
22 Q Does it tell you what an official
375
1 document is when it pops up?
2 A I'm trying to be as -- I have a
3 vague recollection. It's like everything --
4 something to the effect of everything you
5 type in here is an official document or
6 something like that. I don't specifically --
7 I haven't read it in quite a long time.
8 Q Have you ever had contact with any
9 member of the media since you've been working
10 in the communications research office? You
11 know what I mean by the media?
12 A I'm aware -- I assume unless you're
13 using a different definition of media.
14 Q Have you or anyone else in your
15 office had contact with the media?
16 A Any contact with the media. We
17 don't -- to answer, I think, what you're
18 asking me, we do not talk to reporters, I
19 wouldn't say, but in the -- have I had any
20 contact with a reporter, I probably have. I'm
21 sure I bumped into, you know, a reporter here
22 or there and said hello, like, you know --
376
1 Q Did you bump into the reporter in
2 the context of your work or just you bumped
3 into them and said hello because you
4 recognized them?
5 A No, maybe because I was either
6 coming or going from the White House and
7 crossed paths with a couple of people. There
8 are a couple that I know. The only occasion
9 I'm thinking of is I bumped into somebody
10 from CNN and talked about NCAA basketball for
11 a quick second one morning.
12 Q Who was that?
13 A John King.
14 Q John King?
15 A Correct.
16 Q Do you know who he was visiting?
17 A To my knowledge he still works at
18 the White House in the White House Press
19 Corps I believe. He's in the White House
20 Press Corps.
21 Q Does he have free access to the
22 White House?
377
1 A No. I think they have a press
2 badge that allows them to go into their press
3 room, et cetera, but -- it was outside of the
4 White House gate that I actually ran into
5 him, but I assume -- I believe that there are
6 pretty strict rules about where they're
7 allowed to go or not go.
8 Q Does your office work with any
9 outside contractors or suppliers of
10 information?
11 A I'm not sure what you're referring
12 to, but I think the answer is clearly no.
13 I'm not aware of any such -- I mean beyond --
14 there's a -- and, again, I'm not -- there's a
15 Nexis contract or whatever that allow us to
16 have their service, but beyond that I can't
17 think of any thing.
18 Q Have you been offered any jobs in
19 the last year?
20 A Have I been offered any jobs? No,
21 not that I'm -- no, I don't think so.
22 Q Have you ever had more than a
378
1 minute conversation with Paul Begala about
2 anything one on one?
3 A I probably have, sure.
4 Q What would cause you to come into
5 contact with Mr. Begala for more than a
6 minute?
7 A He's a senior person at the White
8 House who deals with the media a lot and I'm
9 sure that, you know, I've seen him enough in
10 passing that, you know, we've stopped and I
11 probably, you know, talked to him about his
12 family. I certainly talked to him when he
13 first arrived at the White House for longer
14 than that.
15 Q I'm not talking about personal
16 discussions. I'm talking about over
17 business.
18 A Yeah, I'm sure on business
19 related --
20 Q Let's just take the last three
21 months. What have you talked to Mr. Begala
22 about?
379
1 A State of the Union, I certainly --
2 he was working on the speech. He was looking
3 for particular, you know -- I think we sat
4 down and he laid out for me like -- I don't
5 know if he sat down with me or if he -- I
6 think we sat down, we were in a meeting
7 together where he laid out here's five facts
8 we ought to have for the speech kind of --
9 that kind of thing.
10 I think he -- I also spoke with him
11 for longer than that about the issue of
12 Social Security and there, you know, there
13 may have been others. I don't know if
14 you're -- I can't specifically recall any
15 others.
16 Q Did you ever talk to him about
17 Judicial Watch or this case?
18 A No, sir.
19 Q Did anyone else that you know of?
20 A Did anyone else that I know of?
21 Q Talk to him about Judicial Watch,
22 Larry Klayman or this lawsuit?
380
1 A From my own knowledge, no. Having
2 read a couple of depositions, you know, I
3 guess the answer is yes.
4 Q Only from the depositions you have
5 that knowledge?
6 A Yeah.
7 Q Is there a library in the White
8 House?
9 A The White House or --
10 Q Yeah. In the Executive --
11 A Old Executive Office Building?
12 Q Yeah.
13 A Yeah, there is.
14 Q Where is that located?
15 A It's up on the third floor.
16 Q Does your staff ever use the
17 library?
18 A Certainly.
19 Q Who's the head librarian?
20 A That I don't know.
21 Q Do you know any librarian?
22 A No, not particularly.
381
1 Q Are there files kept in the library
2 about perceived adversaries of the Clinton
3 administration?
4 A No, absolutely not. It's just a --
5 like books and whatnot, magazines, books.
6 Q Do they have computers in the
7 library?
8 A I believe they have -- there are a
9 couple of computers that the women who work
10 in the library have at the desk. There's --
11 I think there are a couple of computers that
12 have CD-ROM, like whatever it's called, the
13 congressional information on CD-ROM, that
14 kinds of thing. Beyond that I'm not aware of
15 any computers.
16 Q Getting back to Brenda Costello.
17 Do you know who Brenda Costello works with
18 inside the First Lady's office? Who is her
19 contact person in the First Lady's office?
20 MS. GILES: Objection as to
21 relevance.
22 BY MR. KLAYMAN:
382
1 Q You can respond.
2 A I do not. Again, she does the
3 First Lady's briefing book. I don't know,
4 you know, who she works with.
5 Q What kind of information comes into
6 her office such that she can do that briefing
7 book?
8 A My -- again, you're asking me to
9 comment on what she -- her job and how she
10 does her briefing book?
11 Q Uh-huh.
12 A To my knowledge she works on her
13 computer. I think she -- I think I've -- I
14 think she has Nexis, she gets people other --
15 seems to me that there are other staff people
16 who give her memos. I'm really not
17 comfortable describing how she does her job.
18 I mean I don't know. It seems to me --
19 Q Well -- go on.
20 A I mean, it seems to me if --
21 depending on what the event is, you know, and
22 whoever is responsible for it, people may
383
1 have their own memo that is part of the
2 preparation for a particular event and
3 they're all -- seems to me they're all
4 responsible for getting those memos to Brenda
5 and she puts it all into the book that goes
6 to the First Lady at the end of the day.
7 That's my best guess as to the process.
8 Q You sometimes see people coming
9 into the office with memos for Brenda to put
10 in that book?
11 A That's my, again, best guess as to
12 the process, not being someone who does it
13 myself. It seems to me that there's a -- at
14 the end of the day that's what seems to
15 happen, if I had to guess. That there --
16 there's a time deadline by which the book is
17 supposed to go to the First Lady for review
18 and everyone involved in the next day's
19 activities, in terms of like where she's
20 going, what airport, who the greeters are
21 going to be, that kind of information is
22 responsible to get them to -- into the
384
1 briefing book.
2 MS. GILES: You shouldn't guess.
3 You're under oath. Testify to what you have
4 personal knowledge about.
5 MR. KLAYMAN: You don't have to
6 tell him what you want him to do, Ms. Giles.
7 I mean if he says I guess, it's on the
8 record, so it's clear what he's doing.
9 BY MR. KLAYMAN:
10 Q But you've seem people come into
11 the office with materials for Brenda,
12 correct?
13 A You know, I'm just not -- can I --
14 I'm not comfortable discussing it. I don't
15 know how --
16 Q It's not an issue of whether you're
17 comfortable about it.
18 A Well, I don't know how the briefing
19 book comes together. I've already described
20 for you as best I can as an outsider how the
21 briefing book comes together.
22 Q Who have you seen visit Brenda
385
1 Costello in your suite?
2 A I don't know -- I don't know the
3 people. I'm not -- I don't know.
4 Q Do you know who Mrs. Clinton's
5 Chief of Staff is?
6 A I don't know. Maybe Bobby Green.
7 Is that -- I don't even know if that's right.
8 I think it's Bobby Green. I don't know.
9 Q Do you know who Mrs. Clinton's
10 press secretary is?
11 A No.
12 Q Do you belong to any clubs or other
13 organizations?
14 A I'm a democrat. I don't know if
15 there's a membership involved.
16 Q Other than that?
17 A No. REI, I mean no -- no clubs.
18 That's a sporting goods club, you know. No,
19 I don't believe I'm a member of any. I don't
20 believe so, no.
21 Q Do you socialize frequently with
22 Mr. Weiner in the evenings?
386
1 A I wouldn't say frequently, but
2 certainly, yes. He's a good friend of mine.
3 Q Where do you guys generally hang
4 out?
5 MS. GILES: Objection. Relevance.
6 BY MR. KLAYMAN:
7 Q You can respond.
8 A No, I don't want to respond.
9 That's fine.
10 Q Excuse me? You don't get to decide
11 on the basis of relevance.
12 Where do you generally hang out?
13 MS. GILES: Can we just take a
14 short break? If you're not comfortable
15 responding, can we take a short break and
16 we'll discuss it? Can we go off the record
17 for two minutes?
18 MR. KLAYMAN: Sure.
19 VIDEO TECHNICIAN: We're going off
20 video record at 4:27 Eastern Standard Time.
21 (Recess)
22 VIDEO TECHNICIAN: We're back on
387
1 video record at 4:34 Eastern Standard Time.
2 BY MR. KLAYMAN:
3 Q Can you respond?
4 MS. GILES: No, unless you can
5 offer some proffer or relevance as to where
6 he and Mr. Weiner hang out in their social
7 life --
8 MR. KLAYMAN: Well, it's obviously
9 relevant because his memory from my
10 perspective is that he doesn't remember a
11 thing. It's important to know who he comes
12 into contact with because we way want to take
13 discovery from these people.
14 MS. GILES: But you know he comes
15 into contact with Mr. Weiner. In fact,
16 you've already noticed his deposition. If
17 you want to ask him about the substance of
18 his conversations with Mr. Weiner, which you
19 already have, especially if they discussed
20 FBI files in the course of --
21 BY MR. KLAYMAN:
22 Q Well, let me ask you this: Are you
388
1 a roommate with Mr. Weiner?
2 A No, sir.
3 Q Do you have a roommate?
4 A Yes.
5 Q Who is your roommate?
6 MS. GILES: Objection. He doesn't
7 have to give the name of his roommate.
8 MR. KLAYMAN: Well, he obviously
9 can talk to that roommate about matters
10 involving this particular case.
11 MS. GILES: If you want to lay a
12 foundation that there's some relevant
13 substance of the conversations first.
14 MR. KLAYMAN: That's the reason.
15 We want to have an opportunity to test as to
16 whether or not what he's told us is accurate.
17 MS. GILES: If you want to ask
18 about the substance of his conversations with
19 the roommate, such that that person becomes
20 relevant, then we'll give you the name, but
21 otherwise I instruct him not to give the name
22 of his roommate.
389
1 MR. KLAYMAN: Well, if he is not
2 telling the truth about matters that we've
3 requested of him today, there's reason why I
4 should believe him, and I'm not making any
5 accusations, but there's no reason why I
6 should believe he is telling me the truth as
7 to whether he's discussed things with his
8 roommate. So the foundation is meaningless.
9 MS. GILES: If that's your basis
10 for asking his roommate's name --
11 MR. KLAYMAN: I don't see the
12 problem with having the name of his roommate.
13 THE WITNESS: I do. Well --
14 MS. GILES: These depositions have
15 been made very public. He doesn't have to
16 give the name of his roommate and I'm
17 instructing him not to answer.
18 MR. KLAYMAN: Certify it.
19 And I take you're also instructing
20 him not to answer where, you know, he
21 generally sees Mr. Weiner, in what
22 environment?
390
1 MS. GILES: I think he's made it
2 very clear where he sees Mr. Weiner in the
3 business environment and, again, if you want
4 to ask the substance of conversations he had
5 about the FBI files or misuse of government
6 files, of course, you're entitled to an
7 answer to that.
8 BY MR. KLAYMAN:
9 Q Is there a group of people that
10 gets together in the evenings with you and
11 Mr. Weiner from time to time?
12 A You have to be more specific. No,
13 there's not a group -- standard group of
14 people who get together with --
15 Q Have you ever gone out with
16 Mr. Weiner in the presence of Mr. Carville or
17 anybody from his office?
18 A I don't believe I have, no.
19 Q Do you know Kevin Murphy?
20 A No. I've heard the name, but I
21 don't know him.
22 Q Do you know Todd DiLorenzo?
391
1 A Again, I've heard the name, but I
2 don't believe I've ever met him.
3 Q Is the reason you don't want to
4 tell me where you see Mr. Weiner, does that
5 have something to do with a personal
6 relationship or is there some other reason
7 why you don't want to tell me?
8 A I don't know what you -- what are
9 you trying to --
10 Q I don't know. I don't know. I
11 don't understand The sensitivity. I'm trying
12 to get a feeling for that.
13 MS. GILES: He's already testified
14 he socialized with Mr. Weiner. He doesn't
15 have to testify to the specific locations
16 they go to. There's no relevance for that.
17 MR. KLAYMAN: I want to know what's
18 the basis he --
19 MS. GILES: I consider it private.
20 BY MR. KLAYMAN:
21 Q And generally speaking. I'm not
22 looking for information about your personal
392
1 life. I'm just trying to figure out why it
2 is you wouldn't tell me if you see him at X
3 restaurant or some place else in the
4 evenings.
5 A You're asking me why?
6 Q Yeah.
7 A Because I consider that to be, you
8 know, completely irrelevant and I don't want
9 my personal, private list posted on the
10 Internet in, you know --
11 Q Would you be willing to give that
12 information under a protective order?
13 MS. GILES: Objection. It's not
14 relevant with or without a protective order.
15 Again --
16 MR. KLAYMAN: You don't get to
17 refuse to answer the question on the basis of
18 relevancy. We've been through that in the
19 court many times. Discovery is that which is
20 relevant or may lead and this is the or may
21 lead part of it, is that if we know who he
22 talks to frequently, then we're able to
393
1 follow-up and see whether what he told us is
2 true or not.
3 MS. GILES: But you know he sees
4 Mr. Weiner. You've already established that.
5 He sees him socially and he sees him at work.
6 You don't need to know what restaurants they
7 happen to have gone to.
8 BY MR. KLAYMAN:
9 Q But are there other people there
10 when you see Weiner from time to time?
11 A Sure. I mean, you know, we go to
12 public places. Sure, there are other people
13 around.
14 Q People that are friends?
15 A Yeah, I'm sure on occasion,
16 certainly.
17 Q Who are your closest friends?
18 MS. GILES: Objection. Anyone he's
19 discussed, you know, FBI files with, misuse
20 of government files, I'm happy to have him
21 testify as to those names. If you don't lay
22 a foundation, he does not have to list name
394
1 on a deposition that's being made public.
2 MR. KLAYMAN: Well, again, I have
3 no basis to believe whether or not that
4 statement is true or not until I have
5 information of who he's in constant contact
6 with and frequent contact with.
7 MS. GILES: If you want to ask him
8 specific names of people, he's not going to
9 do so.
10 MR. KLAYMAN: Again, no accusation,
11 but suppose he's not telling me the truth.
12 Why should he tell me the truth about that.
13 MS. GILES: About who his friends
14 are?
15 THE WITNESS: I would rather
16 suppose I am telling you the truth. I'm
17 under oath. I'm, you know --
18 BY MR. KLAYMAN:
19 Q Well, and this is no offense to
20 you, but sometimes people don't tell the
21 truth under oath.
22 MS. GILES: I just don't understand
395
1 the point of that. If you don't believe he's
2 going to tell the truth over one thing, why
3 should you believe he's going to tell the
4 truth as to exactly who his friends are?
5 MR. KLAYMAN: Exactly.
6 MS. GILES: It's not relevant.
7 It's private. It's confidential. If you can
8 establish that it's relevant --
9 MR. KLAYMAN: This is a way to test
10 whether what he is telling me is true.
11 BY MR. KLAYMAN:
12 Q Who is the person that you speak
13 most with on a weekly basis about what goes
14 on at work? After hours who do you talk to
15 most about what goes on at work?
16 MS. GILES: About work matters?
17 MR. KLAYMAN: Yeah.
18 THE WITNESS: Probably my
19 girlfriend.
20 BY MR. KLAYMAN:
21 Q Have you ever seen George
22 Stephanopoulos at lunch or dinner or anyplace
396
1 outside of the working environment?
2 A Have I ever seen him outside of a
3 working environment?
4 Q Yeah. Have you ever had dinner
5 with him or friends?
6 A I've seen him on occasion maybe
7 outside of the work environment, sure.
8 Q You've been present when people
9 have had dinner together or drinks or
10 anything like that?
11 A No, he used to live in the general
12 vicinity of my house. I think I bumped into
13 him on the street once or twice. I saw him
14 at -- there was a going-away party for him or
15 something like that, that I saw him at.
16 Beyond that I can't recall any.
17 Q Have you seen him since
18 February 8th?
19 A Of?
20 Q '98.
21 A No.
22 Q Have you talked to him since
397
1 February 8th of '98?
2 A No, sir.
3 Q Did you talk to him the month prior
4 to February 8, 1998?
5 A No, sir.
6 MR. KLAYMAN: With your permission
7 Mr. Bostion has a few questions.
8 MS. GILES: Sure.
9 BY MR. BOSTION:
10 Q Good afternoon. My name is Don
11 Bostion. I have just a very few questions
12 for you.
13 I believe you testified that you
14 use electronic data bases in your work to do
15 research, and by that I'm going to start out
16 with proprietary data bases, and we use
17 Lexis/Nexis as an example I'm talking about.
18 Do you have access to the Nexis/Lexis data
19 base from the computer in your office?
20 A Yes, sir.
21 Q Do you have access with any other
22 computer such as a computer at home or a
398
1 computer you might take with you?
2 A No, sir.
3 Q Do you have access to Lexis/Nexis
4 data base? And I will include Westlaw. I
5 think they're pretty much similar.
6 A I'm not familiar --
7 Q Data bases that will provide you
8 with access to public documents, newspapers,
9 magazines, anything else they offer as a
10 range of information.
11 Do you have a personal account with
12 Lexis or Nexis or Westlaw for access to data
13 base or do you access it only through the
14 White House?
15 A No, I've never, to my knowledge,
16 used Westlaw and I believe --
17 Q The Lexis/Nexis or Nexis, they're
18 both the same, I think you understand. Lexis
19 provides information on legal cases. Nexis
20 is more of a news and public document sort of
21 service.
22 You access that from the computer
399
1 in your office of the White House?
2 MS. GILES: Which? Lexis or Nexis
3 or both?
4 BY MR. BOSTION:
5 Q Well, can we stipulate that Lexis
6 and Nexis are the same?
7 A No, I would not stipulate that
8 because I've used Nexis.
9 Q Well, let's limit it to Nexis.
10 Nexis is a data base which contains
11 information in newspapers, publications and
12 public records. Can you access that from the
13 computer in your office?
14 A Yes, sir.
15 Q Has it always been there on your
16 White House computer?
17 A I don't --
18 Q Was it there when you got there,
19 the ability to access Nexis?
20 A I'm a little bit confused. There
21 was -- no, I mean, it was something --
22 Q When did you first have the ability
400
1 to access Nexis from your office in the White
2 House, your present office?
3 A It was something that took a little
4 while to get done as a new employee and it
5 took me awhile to get it --
6 Q Did other people --
7 A Can I finish? I'm sorry.
8 MR. KLAYMAN: Give him an
9 opportunity to finish his answer.
10 MR. BOSTION: I'm sorry.
11 THE WITNESS: It was as -- you
12 know, it took me awhile to get a computer log
13 in at all and then I think it took a little
14 bit longer than that to get a Nexis -- my own
15 identification. So I think it was probably a
16 month after I got there.
17 BY MR. BOSTION:
18 Q While you were waiting to be given
19 your own access to Nexis were you able to
20 access Nexis from someone else's computer and
21 did you?
22 A I think I may have on occasion.