101
1 the book?
2 A Decide? Sometime in late '96. I
3 don't know the exact date.
4 Q Do you have a literary agent?
5 A I have an agent. I have a lawyer.
6 Q Who is the agent?
7 A Bob Barnett.
8 Q Bob Barnett. Where does he work?
9 A Williams & Connolly.
10 Q He's your literary agent or he's
11 your lawyer?
12 A Actually both.
13 Q What does Mr. Barnett do?
14 A Writes my contracts.
15 Q What contracts?
16 A Whichever ones I have.
17 Q What contracts did he write of
18 yours?
19 A How is this relevant? I mean what
20 is this relevant to?
21 Q This is discovery,
22 Mr. Stephanopoulos. It's not just what's
102
1 relevant, but what may lead to relevant
2 evidence. What contracts did he write for
3 you?
4 A My contract with Newsweek, my
5 contract with ABC, my contract with Little
6 Brown, my contract with Columbia, my contract
7 with Washington Speaker's Bureau.
8 Q To the best of your knowledge, what
9 is Mr. Barnett's specialty?
10 A He's good at this.
11 Q Good at what?
12 A He's a good lawyer.
13 Q Before your deposition here today
14 did you talk to him about it?
15 A No.
16 Q Did you talk to anybody at Williams
17 & Connolly about your deposition?
18 A No.
19 Q Did you talk to Mr. Kendall?
20 A No.
21 Q Mr. Gaffney?
22 A No. Never met Mr. Gaffney before
103
1 today.
2 Q You met Mr. Kendall, though, right?
3 A Oh, sure. We can obviously save a
4 lot of time. I have never talked to him
5 about FBI files.
6 Q I didn't ask the question.
7 A Well, then if you would ask
8 questions that are relevant, we could move a
9 lot quicker.
10 Q When you've met with Mr. Barnett,
11 has he kept notes about your various
12 activities?
13 A You have to ask him. Sorry.
14 Q Is something funny about that?
15 A What's funny is how comical you are
16 in wasting time rather than getting to the
17 point.
18 Q Would you like to put any other
19 insults on the record now? Why don't you get
20 them out of the way so we can move along.
21 Any others you would like to make?
22 A They only rise in response to your
104
1 actions. If you would like to ask me about
2 FBI files, I'd be happy to answer them.
3 Q We will ask you about FBI files,
4 Mr. Stephanopoulos.
5 A You've conceded, but you haven't
6 asked me anything in the deposition about FBI
7 files.
8 Q I'm not conceding anything. I'm
9 asking the questions.
10 Have you ever taken a course when
11 you were at Columbia on business law or any
12 types of legal matters?
13 A No. Oh, wait. I took -- I took a
14 few legal related classes, or at least one,
15 but not business law, no.
16 Q What legal related classes did you
17 take?
18 A It was one on the sociology law.
19 It's the one I can remember. I know that
20 that is extremely relevant to the FBI files
21 matters in 1994 and 1995, what I studied in
22 Columbia in 1979.
105
1 Q Are you aware that in our legal
2 system it's the judge and the jury that makes
3 the decision of what's relevant and not you?
4 Did you learn that in your course?
5 A I'm aware of my duties, which is
6 why I'm here answering questions today.
7 Q Did you learn that in your course?
8 A I think you're proving my point
9 better than I can prove it. If you want to
10 go on to the next question, I'm happy to.
11 Q Are you aware of it?
12 A Aware of what?
13 Q That you're not the one who decides
14 what's relevant?
15 A I'm aware that I'm here pursuant to
16 a subpoena at a judge's order and that's why
17 I'm here.
18 Q Are you aware that you're not the
19 one who decides what's relevant?
20 A I'm aware that I'm doing my duty
21 today.
22 Q You think you get to make the
106
1 decision as to what you can testify to?
2 A That's not what I said. Could you
3 read -- please, excuse me. I'm sorry. Could
4 you read back my next answer, please?
5 MR. KLAYMAN: Certify this answer.
6 (The reporter read the record
7 as requested.)
8 THE WITNESS: Thank you.
9 BY MR. KLAYMAN:
10 Q The question was, do you have
11 knowledge that you're not the one in a legal
12 proceeding that gets to decide what you
13 testify to. Yes or no?
14 A If you go back three -- three
15 questions, I said I am aware that I'm here
16 pursuant to a subpoena that was approved by a
17 judge, which is why I'm here today answering
18 your questions.
19 Q Well, see, what I want to find out,
20 Mr. Stephanopoulos, is whether based on your
21 own judgment you have the right to just tell
22 me what you don't feel like telling me or
107
1 whether you think the court makes that
2 decision.
3 A No, I don't believe that at all. I
4 believe -- I believe the court and the jury
5 makes that decision and I believe I am
6 asked -- answering the questions pursuant to
7 that duty. I believe if you ask me
8 questions, I will also give my opinions at
9 times and that's what I've done. But I'm
10 here answering your questions.
11 Q Now, is it not the case that you
12 keep notes to be able to prepare your book
13 that you're working on?
14 A I keep drafts of my book, sure.
15 MR. KLAYMAN: You take notes to be
16 able to write your book, do you not?
17 (Witness conferred with
18 counsel)
19 MR. BRAND: I think we're
20 getting into --
21 THE WITNESS: I have no notes on
22 the FBI files for this book.
108
1 BY MR. KLAYMAN:
2 Q Do you have notes generally?
3 MR. BRAND: We're not going to
4 permit you to question Mr. Stephanopoulos
5 about his authorship of the book except with
6 respect to the Filegate matter.
7 He has a journalist privilege and
8 he has a contract with his publisher that
9 protects the confidentiality of what he's
10 doing.
11 MR. KLAYMAN: Are you saying that I
12 can't ask him a question of whether he keeps
13 notes for use in his book and identify them?
14 MR. BRAND: Other than what he's
15 already testified to and the fact that he has
16 no notes with respect to Filegate, yes.
17 I don't think you have a roving
18 commission to bring him in and ask him
19 questions about a book he's in the process of
20 writing consistent with the first amendment
21 and the book author's privilege.
22 MR. KLAYMAN: I'm not allowed to
109
1 even identify that he has notes, generally
2 speaking?
3 MR. BRAND: You just did.
4 MR. KLAYMAN: Is that what you're
5 saying?
6 MR. BRAND: You just did, Larry,
7 for the record.
8 BY MR. KLAYMAN:
9 Q Do you have notes that you've kept
10 over the years that you're using for your
11 book?
12 MR. BRAND: We're not going to let
13 you ask the method by which he's writing a
14 book.
15 MR. KLAYMAN: No, listen to my
16 question. The question is very clear.
17 MR. BRAND: You asked if he had
18 notes or drafts regarding books and he said I
19 have them. I don't have anything with
20 respect to Filegate.
21 BY MR. KLAYMAN:
22 Q I want to know when those notes
110
1 were taken. What years do you have the notes
2 from, Mr. Stephanopoulos?
3 A I'm not answering these questions.
4 MR. KLAYMAN: Are you instructing
5 him not to answer, Mr. Brand?
6 THE WITNESS: I have no notes
7 related to FBI files that -- that I'm working
8 on for the book.
9 (Witness conferred with
10 counsel)
11 THE WITNESS: You're right, I mean
12 I'm not keeping any notes in terms of notes.
13 MR. KLAYMAN: I just want to know
14 what years do you have notes from that you're
15 using for your book. I'm just trying to
16 identify them.
17 THE WITNESS: Let's take a break.
18 MR. BRAND: Can we have a minute?
19 MR. KLAYMAN: Yes.
20 VIDEOGRAPHER: This is the video
21 operator. We're going off the record. The
22 time now is approximately 11:51 a.m.
111
1 (Discussion off the record)
2 VIDEOGRAPHER: This is the video
3 operator. We're going back on the record.
4 The time now is approximately 11:57 a.m.
5 BY MR. KLAYMAN:
6 Q Let the record reflect that
7 Mr. Stephanopoulos has requested to take
8 lunch at 12:15. He advises me he will try to
9 keep it to an hour and-a-half, but it could
10 take him to 2:00 and he's agreed that we will
11 do at least six hours of actual testimony
12 today. We'll stay as long as that's
13 required?
14 A Well, I mean I -- we'll eat up the
15 six hours -- I was here at 10:10 ready to
16 testify and I think that 10:10 to 10:25
17 counts against my six hours.
18 Q Well, you're not going to the one
19 that decides that. I asked you whether you
20 were willing to stay for six hours of actual
21 testimony.
22 A Yes.
112
1 Q Just so everybody is on notice of
2 that, the court reporters, the other counsel,
3 that we'll be here. Okay?
4 Now, before you took the break my
5 question was what periods of notes you have
6 that you're using for your book, what periods
7 of time are those notes generated?
8 MR. BRAND: We're going to object
9 to that question.
10 MR. KLAYMAN: You're not going to
11 respond to that?
12 MR. BRAND: No.
13 MR. KLAYMAN: Certify it.
14 BY MR. KLAYMAN:
15 Q Is there anything else that you're
16 referring to in terms of that book in terms
17 of gathering information besides notes? Do
18 you have computer disks? Did you leave the
19 White House with computer disks?
20 A No.
21 Q During the time you were in the
22 White House did you have a laptop computer?
113
1 A No.
2 Q Have you ever had a laptop
3 computer?
4 A Have I ever had a laptop computer,
5 yes.
6 Q Yeah. When did you first get one?
7 A After I left the White House.
8 Q You didn't have one during that
9 period?
10 A Actually I bought one when I was at
11 the White House. I never learned how to turn
12 it on.
13 Q Is that the same one you're using
14 now?
15 A No.
16 Q What happened to that one?
17 A I gave it to a friend.
18 Q Who did you give it to?
19 A Wendy Smith.
20 Q Where is she currently?
21 A I just cannot believe this. New
22 York City.
114
1 Q What does she do in New York City?
2 Where can we find her?
3 A She works for the New Yorker
4 Magazine.
5 Q Do you know if she still has that
6 computer?
7 A I don't know actually.
8 Q What kind of computer was it?
9 A IBM.
10 Q Think Pad?
11 A Probably. I don't know.
12 Q When you left the White House, did
13 you take any computer disks or audio
14 cassettes?
15 A No.
16 Q Chron files?
17 A I already answered. What is a
18 chron file?
19 Q A filing of your correspondence
20 that you generated at the White House in
21 chronological order or any order.
22 A Probably not. I mean I -- again,
115
1 I've already answered the question.
2 Q You're not sure?
3 A I don't have -- I never heard the
4 term before.
5 Q Does your assistant, Glaros, refer
6 to your notes in helping you write your back?
7 MR. BRAND: First of all, you
8 haven't established anything about Mr. Glaros
9 in the book.
10 MR. KLAYMAN: He said he was
11 helping him earlier.
12 MR. BRAND: I don't think he did,
13 but --
14 MR. KLAYMAN: Yeah.
15 THE WITNESS: Yeah, I did.
16 BY MR. KLAYMAN:
17 Q Does he go through notes and other
18 materials assisting you with your book?
19 MR. BRAND: We're going to object
20 to that question as well.
21 BY MR. KLAYMAN:
22 Q Generally speaking, what's your
116
1 book about? Just general subject matter, no
2 specifics.
3 MR. BRAND: I'm going to object to
4 that question.
5 MR. KLAYMAN: Are you going to let
6 him answer?
7 MR. BRAND: No.
8 MR. KLAYMAN: Certify it.
9 BY MR. KLAYMAN:
10 Q Who is your literary agent? Is it
11 Mr. Barnett or do you have another agent?
12 MR. BRAND: That's been asked and
13 answered.
14 BY MR. KLAYMAN:
15 Q Is there somebody else who is
16 representing you with the publishers?
17 MR. BRAND: It's been asked and
18 answered.
19 BY MR. KLAYMAN:
20 Q You can respond.
21 A No.
22 Q Is the publishing house Little
117
1 Brown?
2 A Yes.
3 Q You've signed a $2.8 million
4 contract for that book? It's been publicly
5 reported.
6 A I don't know what the exact number
7 is. I don't know if that exact number is
8 right.
9 Q In that ballpark?
10 A Yes.
11 Q Did you get an advance?
12 A Uh-huh.
13 Q How much was that for?
14 MR. BRAND: Objection.
15 BY MR. KLAYMAN:
16 Q You can respond.
17 MR. BRAND: I'm going to instruct
18 him not to answer.
19 MR. KLAYMAN: Certify it.
20 BY MR. KLAYMAN:
21 Q Are there any materials with regard
22 to that book currently in the possession of
118
1 Little Brown?
2 MR. BRAND: I'm going to object to
3 that question and instruct him not to answer.
4 MR. KLAYMAN: Certify it.
5 BY MR. KLAYMAN:
6 Q Who at Little Brown did you deal
7 with in negotiating the contract?
8 MR. BRAND: I'm going to instruct
9 him not to answer that question either.
10 MR. KLAYMAN: Certify it.
11 BY MR. KLAYMAN:
12 Q Do you have anybody who's helping
13 you write such as a ghostwriter?
14 MR. BRAND: Objection.
15 BY MR. KLAYMAN:
16 Q You can respond.
17 MR. BRAND: No, he's not going to
18 respond to that either.
19 MR. KLAYMAN: Certify it.
20 BY MR. KLAYMAN:
21 Q Is ABC aware that you're writing a
22 book to the best of your knowledge?
119
1 A Yes.
2 Q Who at ABC knows you're writing the
3 book?
4 A Probably everybody. I don't know.
5 Q Have they seen you working on your
6 book, anyone over there?
7 A No.
8 Q What's your relationship with ABC?
9 A I have a contract with them.
10 Q What is that contract calling you
11 to do? Is there a title for your position?
12 A I think I'm called political
13 analyst.
14 Q The contract doesn't say you're a
15 reporter, does it?
16 A It's quite a long contract. I
17 don't know exactly what it says.
18 Q It doesn't refer to you being a
19 reporter, does it?
20 A I just answered that question.
21 Q Yes or no the best of your
22 knowledge?
120
1 A I just answered it the best of my
2 knowledge.
3 Q Does it say you're a reporter?
4 A I don't know the words it uses. I
5 haven't read the contract in a long time.
6 Q Does it use the word "reporter"?
7 A How many times can I say I don't
8 know?
9 Q To the best of your knowledge.
10 A I just said I don't know.
11 Q Now I'm asking you an easy question
12 because, you see, a lot of times you don't
13 have knowledge, so do you remember whether it
14 does or doesn't?
15 A I just said I don't know.
16 Q What are your duties and
17 responsibilities, as written in that
18 contract, as a political analyst?
19 A To follow current political events
20 and analyze them and speak about them.
21 Q As part of your duties and
22 responsibilities, are you to be in contact
121
1 with the White House?
2 A They don't tell me how to do my
3 job.
4 Q Is it assumed that you will be in
5 contact with the White House?
6 A It does that.
7 Q Who is it that you negotiated that
8 contract with at ABC?
9 A I don't know the name of the
10 individual.
11 Q Did ABC approach you or did you
12 approach ABC?
13 A They approached me.
14 Q Who at ABC approached you?
15 A I don't remember exactly. I know I
16 met with the top people there.
17 Q Who was the first person who
18 broached the subject with you at ABC?
19 A Probably Dorrance Smith, although I
20 couldn't swear to it.
21 Q Did you ever have discussions with
22 anyone else about your employment before you
122
1 signed a contract at ABC?
2 A Before I signed a contract?
3 Q Yes.
4 A Oh, sure.
5 Q Who did you discuss your contract
6 with?
7 A Roon Arledge, several other
8 executives there.
9 Q Rick Kaplan?
10 A No.
11 Q Anyone else?
12 A I'm sure I did, yeah.
13 Q Sam Donaldson?
14 A No.
15 Q Cokie Roberts?
16 A No.
17 Q David Brinkley?
18 A No.
19 Q Any other in management other than
20 Roon Arledge?
21 A Oh, I'm sure there is. Yeah, there
22 were others at -- at the lunch -- the first
123
1 lunch I had.
2 Q Where was the first lunch?
3 A ABC.
4 Q Who was at that lunch?
5 A Again, I find it hard to believe
6 that this lunch in December 1996 is relevant
7 to the FBI files, but it was probably Roon
8 Arledge, Joanne Bistany.
9 Q Bistany?
10 A Bistany.
11 Q How is that spelled?
12 A B-i-s-t-a-n-y. Paul Friedman,
13 maybe Bob Murphy, Bob Barnett was there, but
14 I don't -- that's all I know, and, again, I
15 mean I am just -- knowing full well that the
16 judge and the jury can determine the
17 relevance.
18 I would just like to state for the
19 record that I have no idea what possible
20 relevance my lunch in December 1996, if
21 indeed it was December 1996, with ABC
22 executives would have any relevance to the
124
1 matter of whether FBI files on Bush and
2 Reagan administration officials were
3 mistakenly taken at the White House, not by
4 me, never read by me, never looked at by me,
5 never ordered by me, no independent knowledge
6 of that, what -- what that lunch could
7 possibly have to do with the subject of this
8 lawsuit.
9 Q Did anyone at that lunch tell you
10 what they were interested in having you do
11 for ABC?
12 A They were interested in me being a
13 political analyst.
14 Q Did they tell you what those duties
15 and responsibilities were envisioned to be?
16 A It was a very general discussion.
17 Q What was said generally by whom?
18 A They wanted to know if I were
19 interested in being a political analyst for
20 ABC and I said I think I would. I would like
21 to talk about it.
22 Q In fact, they told you that the
125
1 reason they wanted you as political analyst
2 was because of your past experience with the
3 White House and your contacts with the
4 current White House?
5 A How do you know that they said
6 that?
7 Q That was one of the reasons?
8 A You just said it was a fact. I
9 mean they gave a lot of reasons.
10 Q Wasn't that what they were
11 interested in, in part?
12 A You'd have to ask them.
13 Q Didn't they mention that?
14 A They mentioned a lot of things.
15 Q Wasn't that one of the things they
16 mentioned?
17 A Could have been. I would -- I
18 don't know if they used the words you just
19 used.
20 Q Mr. Stephanopoulos, you asked me
21 why we're getting this information, although
22 I don't have to tell you this, I just want
126
1 you to you know because maybe it will help
2 the way this deposition proceeds. We're
3 going to check out everything you say here.
4 Everything.
5 Now, with regard to ABC, did there
6 come a point in time when you reached an
7 agreement?
8 A Yes.
9 Q What was your understanding at the
10 time you reached the agreement as to what
11 your duties and responsibilities were other
12 than just political analyst?
13 A That I would be a political analyst
14 on Good Morning America, This Week and
15 various other ABC news programs.
16 Q Is it not the case that that
17 position was predicated on your past
18 experience with the White House and your
19 current contacts with the White House?
20 A I -- you would have to ask them why
21 they hired me. It's their decision.
22 Q You're saying no one ever said that
127
1 to you?
2 A Those words, no.
3 Q Any other words similar?
4 A They thought I would be good at
5 this job. I'm glad they thought that.
6 Q Since receiving a subpoena from
7 Judicial Watch have you talked to anybody at
8 ABC about the subpoena or your testimony here
9 today?
10 A Yes.
11 Q Who?
12 A I mentioned it to Dorrance Smith
13 when I got the subpoena at ABC and I talked
14 to the lawyers at ABC. I don't know the
15 guy's name. John something.
16 Q Zucker?
17 A Yes.
18 Q Did you ask Mr. Zucker to represent
19 you?
20 A I asked for his advice based on
21 things relevant to ABC in the subpoena what I
22 should do.
128
1 Q Are you represented by a lawyer
2 from ABC with regard to this case, Judicial
3 Watch's case on behalf of the Reagan and Bush
4 employees?
5 A I don't know what that means
6 exactly.
7 Q Do you have counsel at ABC who is
8 representing you with regard to this lawsuit
9 Alexander versus FBI?
10 A I sent the subpoena to ABC, asked
11 their advice on how to respond and they gave
12 me their advice based on the things that were
13 relevant to my employment with ABC.
14 Q Are you saying nobody at ABC is
15 representing you on this particular case?
16 A I just gave you the answer on what
17 I -- what I did.
18 Q To the best of your knowledge,
19 nobody at ABC is representing you?
20 A I just gave you the answer of
21 exactly what happened.
22 Q Yes or no?
129
1 A I don't know the answer to that
2 question. I just told you exactly what
3 happened. You, you know, you reach whatever
4 conclusion you want. I told you exactly what
5 happened.
6 Q Is it your understanding that
7 anybody at ABC in the legal department is
8 representing you with regard to this
9 particular case that you're here on today?
10 A The facts are that I sent this to
11 ABC, they reviewed it. John Zucker called
12 me. I took his call. I asked his advice
13 and -- and I'm here today.
14 Q Specific question. Are you aware
15 of anyone representing you in an
16 attorney-client relationship at ABC?
17 A I answered this a million times.
18 Q Yes or no?
19 A I suppose the answer is yes based
20 on --
21 Q Who? Who?
22 A I suppose it's John Zucker, but I
130
1 don't know that. I'm not a lawyer.
2 Q Have they told you they're
3 representing you, anybody at ABC?
4 A They reviewed the subpoena.
5 Q Did they provide any advice to you
6 with regard to the subpoena, they meaning
7 ABC's legal department? I'm not asking you
8 for what the advice was, just that they
9 provided advice to you?
10 A Do I have to answer that?
11 MR. BRAND: (Nodding)
12 THE WITNESS: I suppose they did.
13 BY MR. KLAYMAN:
14 Q I didn't ask for suppose. Yes or
15 no?
16 A Depends on what you consider
17 advice. I spoke with John Zucker about it.
18 Q Did he offer any advice?
19 A Again, it depends on your
20 definition of advice. We discussed this.
21 Q Did he give you any suggestions on
22 how to handle the deposition?
131
1 MR. BRAND: I think that is
2 attorney-client privilege.
3 MR. KLAYMAN: I'm not asking for
4 what was provided, Mr. Brand. I'm asking
5 just whether he gave you some suggestions on
6 how to handle the deposition.
7 MR. BRAND: I think that gets into
8 the substance of what was discussed.
9 BY MR. KLAYMAN:
10 Q You can respond.
11 MR. BRAND: No, I think we'll
12 object on attorney-client grounds.
13 MR. KLAYMAN: Certify it.
14 Did you consult with Mr. Zucker or
15 anyone at ABC in their legal department as to
16 what documents to produce and which documents
17 not to produce?
18 (Counsel conferred with
19 witness)
20 THE WITNESS: Yeah, based on
21 question 14, he asked me if I had any
22 documents, I told him no and that was that.
132
1 BY MR. KLAYMAN:
2 Q That's all he asked you?
3 A Yeah.
4 Q He didn't ask you questions like I
5 did today, whether you took documents to
6 Columbia University when you left the White
7 House?
8 A It wasn't his interest. He cared
9 about ABC.
10 Q Has anyone discussed with you
11 issues of liability vis-a-vis ABC?
12 MR. BRAND: What do you mean by
13 anyone? Nonlawyers or --
14 MR. KLAYMAN: At ABC. At ABC.
15 MR. BRAND: Liability for what?
16 MR. KLAYMAN: I'm just asking a
17 question.
18 MR. BRAND: If you can understand
19 the question.
20 THE WITNESS: No, not that I know
21 of.
22 BY MR. KLAYMAN:
133
1 Q Request number 15, "Any and all
2 records, correspondence, notes,
3 communications or other documents concerning
4 or relating to efforts to gather information
5 about and/or take any undertaking concerning
6 persons or entities considered to be adverse
7 to or who have brought lawsuits against or
8 are investigating President Clinton,
9 Mrs. Hillary Rodham Clinton, employees or
10 agents of the Clinton administration and the
11 Clinton administration."
12 Do you have any such documents?
13 A No.
14 Q Did you search before the
15 deposition today for any such documents?
16 A I checked. I don't have anything.
17 Q When did you search?
18 A I don't remember.
19 MR. KLAYMAN: Certify it.
20 BY MR. KLAYMAN:
21 Q Sixteen, "Any and all records
22 correspondence, notes, communications or
134
1 other documents concerning or relating to the
2 acquisition, collection, compilation,
3 recordation, dissemination or disclosure of
4 any materials created and/or maintained by
5 any agency or entity of the Executive,
6 Legislative or Judicial branches of the
7 United States, and state, any foreign
8 government or any international organization
9 about any former employee or appointee of the
10 Reagan and Bush administration, current or
11 former employee or appointee of the Clinton
12 administration or any other person."
13 Do you have any such documents?
14 A I don't have any.
15 Q When did you search?
16 A I don't remember.
17 Q Take a look at the remainder of
18 these requests.
19 A Same answer for all of them.
20 MR. KLAYMAN: Certify it.
21 THE WITNESS: Yeah, straight
22 through --
135
1 MR. KLAYMAN: Which one are you
2 pointing out, Mr. Stephanopoulos?
3 MR. BRAND: 35 and 36.
4 BY MR. KLAYMAN:
5 Q How do you wish to respond to those
6 if the response is different?
7 If the response is different, how
8 do you wish to respond to these?
9 MR. BRAND: I guess we're
10 asserting --
11 THE WITNESS: Oh, wait. No, no,
12 this is related to the FBI. 35, I don't have
13 any documents.
14 BY MR. KLAYMAN:
15 Q Same as your previous response
16 for 35?
17 A Yeah, uh-huh.
18 Q You know you searched, but you
19 don't remember when?
20 A Right.
21 MR. BRAND: On 36, because it goes
22 well beyond, as I read it, anything having to
136
1 do with FBI files, we object based on the
2 grounds previously asserted.
3 THE WITNESS: I don't have any of
4 that either and then the same answer for at
5 least 37 and 38, I don't have any. I don't
6 remember when I searched.
7 MR. KLAYMAN: It's 12:15. We can
8 break for lunch.
9 VIDEOGRAPHER: This is the video
10 operator. This concludes this tape. The
11 time now is approximately 12:17 p.m.
12 (Whereupon, at 12:17 p.m., a
13 luncheon recess was taken.)
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1 A F T E R N O O N S E S S I O N
2 (2:07 p.m.)
3 Whereupon,
4 GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS
5 was recalled as a witness and, having been
6 previously duly sworn, was examined and
7 testified further as follows:
8 VIDEOGRAPHER: We're going back on
9 the record. The time now is approximately
10 2:07 p.m. Mr. Klayman?
11 FURTHER EXAMINATION BY COUNSEL FOR
12 PLAINTIFFS
13 BY MR. KLAYMAN:
14 Q Mr. Stephanopoulos, we broke for
15 lunch. I take it you had lunch with
16 Mr. Safire, correct?
17 A Yes, he's waiting to be subpoenaed.
18 Q Did he tell you that?
19 A No. It's a joke.
20 Q Did you discuss this case with him,
21 that you were here today on this case?
22 A I said I was coming from the
138
1 deposition and had to get back to the
2 deposition, yes.
3 Q Did you tell him where it was?
4 A Yeah.
5 Q What did you tell him?
6 A Well, let's sit back. We have an
7 hour and-a-half. We can get the six hours.
8 We had a very nice lunch. I talked about the
9 fact that I am using his book Before the Fall
10 in my seminar on the Presidency at Columbia
11 University. We talked about that a great
12 deal.
13 Q I don't care about other things.
14 Did you mention the fact you were being
15 deposed here today in the Filegate case?
16 A Yes.
17 Q Did you tell him?
18 A That I'm being deposed.
19 Q Did you tell him anything else?
20 A Well, I probably said that I think
21 it's an act of harassment, and, I think, he
22 agreed.
139
1 Q He agreed?
2 A I think so.
3 Q Did he tell you he agreed?
4 A Yeah.
5 Q He did? He said I agree?
6 A Well, I don't know if he said those
7 words. He used the word "harassment."
8 Q Tell me what else he said.
9 A You just said you wanted an answer
10 on FBIs.
11 Q Yeah. I mean did he say anything
12 else about the FBI file matter, Judicial
13 Watch, me?
14 A He said he thought you did a good
15 job on John Huang but that you were far
16 afield here.
17 Q He said the FBI Filegate matter
18 shouldn't be subject to private litigation;
19 is that when he said?
20 A I just told you what I remember him
21 saying.
22 Q Did he say anything else?
140
1 A Not about this, no.
2 Q Did he say what basis that we were
3 far afield?
4 A You can ask him. I mean --
5 Q No, I'm asking you.
6 A Yeah. He thought this -- this
7 seemed like -- he did use the word
8 "harassment." I mean I can't -- I didn't
9 take notes on our lunch conversation. He did
10 mention the word "harassment."
11 He did say he thought you did a
12 good job on John Huang, but he did think --
13 again, he might not have used the exact words
14 "far afield," but he did suggest that this --
15 given the fact this has been investigated by
16 the Office of Independent Counsel and at
17 least two congressional committees, that this
18 is, you know, more like harassment than a
19 legitimate investigation.
20 Q Are you aware of any report coming
21 out of the Independent Counsel's Office on
22 Filegate?
141
1 A I know that looking at FBI files is
2 within their jurisdiction.
3 Q Are you aware of any report that's
4 going to be issued or has issued?
5 A I know that it's the legal
6 responsibility of the Office of Independent
7 Counsel when they're -- when they have
8 completed the investigation to file a report.
9 That's the -- that's the only obligation that
10 the Office of Independent Counsel has as far
11 as I know.
12 The lawyers can correct me if I'm
13 wrong. I assume there will be a report and I
14 assume, without knowing, because I'm not a
15 member of the Independent Counsel's staff,
16 that it will find what all the other
17 legitimate bodies that have looked into this
18 matter have found.
19 That collecting the FBI files by
20 low-level White House employees was wrong,
21 that it was a terrible mistake, but that it
22 was not something that was ordered by anyone
142
1 higher up in the White House, that no one, as
2 far as I know, and certainly not me, has ever
3 seen an FBI file, that I certainly did not
4 order one to be collected, that I had no
5 knowledge of this whatsoever when they were
6 collected.
7 I read about it when press reports
8 came out and I'm certain that this
9 investigation, if it's a fair minded one,
10 will determine that just as all the other
11 legitimate investigations done by the Office
12 of Independent Counsel and congressional
13 committees have done.
14 Q That's a nice speech, but I'm not
15 asking for commentary on ABC. I'm asking
16 what information you have that Ken Starr is
17 going to come out with a report exonerating
18 everyone from wrongdoing in Filegate?
19 A Well --
20 Q Do you have any such information?
21 A Well, I think -- that's not the
22 question you asked me before.
143
1 Q Well, that's the question I'm
2 asking now then.
3 A But since you're asking a new
4 question I believe that when Ken Starr is
5 finished, that he will come out with a report
6 that will find that no one at higher levels
7 of the White House -- not the President, not
8 the First Lady, not the chief of staff, not
9 George Stephanopoulos, not anyone else that I
10 know of beyond Craig Livingstone and Anthony
11 Marceca were involved in collecting FBI
12 files.
13 None of us -- again, I can only
14 speak for myself with certainty, but
15 certainty I never saw an FBI file and never
16 asked anyone to find one, that independent
17 investigations that have been done by the
18 house and the senate have determined this
19 and --
20 Q Well, you can respond, but let's
21 try to move this along. I'm asking you
22 whether you have any information of what Ken
144
1 Starr is going to find in his independent
2 counsel investigation? Do you have any
3 information as to what his finding are? Yes
4 or no? Not your supposition, not your
5 belief.
6 A My judgment is that he will not.
7 Q Do you have any information, any
8 independent information other than your
9 judgment?
10 A Depends on what you consider
11 judgment.
12 Q Do you?
13 A I consider intuition and judgment
14 to be a kind of information.
15 Q Do you have any information coming
16 from the Independent Counsel's Office that
17 they're go going to clear everybody?
18 A No, and I never said that.
19 Q That's my question.
20 Do you have any information from
21 any other source that everybody is going to
22 be cleared in the Independent Counsel
145
1 investigation?
2 A My reading of everything in the
3 public records suggests to me that beyond
4 Craig Livingstone and Tony Marceca, and I
5 don't know what they will find of that --
6 Q I'm not asking you for your
7 reading. We know what your conclusion is. I
8 didn't have to call you here today to get it.
9 I'm asking whether you have that any
10 information from anybody else.
11 A Well, I've read a million things
12 and based on reading a million things that's
13 my conclusion.
14 Q Well, is there any specific
15 information coming from any congressional
16 source or the White House that Ken Starr is
17 going to clear everybody in this
18 investigation? Yes or no?
19 A Congressional source of the White
20 House.
21 Q Anyone.
22 A It's my judgment.
146
1 Q You don't have it from anybody?
2 A I have it from everything I know
3 and read.
4 Q Now, has it dawned on you when you
5 spoke with Mr. Safire that maybe he was just
6 trying to make you feel good so he could get
7 information?
8 A Oh, I suppose that's probably true,
9 but I -- frankly, we -- I wanted to have
10 lunch with Bill Safire independent of this
11 deposition. I don't think either of us
12 really has thought -- thinks that this is
13 serious enough for me to be consoled on it.
14 Q You know what Mr. Safire thinks,
15 that he doesn't think this is serious?
16 A I think that -- I can only tell you
17 what he told me. He used the word
18 "harassment."
19 Q I'm sorry I didn't ask you to
20 invite him back.
21 A Me, too, actually.
22 Q Do you want to give him a call, see
147
1 if he wants to come?
2 A Sure.
3 Q Go ahead.
4 A Does it count against my six hours?
5 Q Sure.
6 A Give me a phone.
7 Q Give him a call. Why don't you
8 invite him in.
9 A Well, I don't -- he probably won't
10 respond, but I'm happy to do it.
11 Q Sure. Go ahead.
12 A I think this is good because it
13 demonstrates how much time you're willing to
14 waste on something, but if -- I think if you
15 want Mr. Safire to come, you're welcome to
16 subpoena him.
17 Q Well, I gave you the opportunity to
18 say that to his face. That's why I said you
19 could do that.
20 Now, you're aware that Bill Safire
21 wrote an article about the John Huang
22 situation in Filegate where I was mentioned
148
1 in that article, are you not?
2 A I'm actually not.
3 Q You never saw that? You didn't see
4 the article where he actually chastised Ken
5 Starr for not being more aggressive in the
6 Filegate matter?
7 A He may have.
8 Q You've never seen that?
9 A It's possible he did. I didn't
10 read it.
11 Q Did you see that article?
12 A It's conceivable that I did. I
13 usually read him. I don't remember.
14 Q Now, tell me what your various jobs
15 were at the White House and when those jobs
16 changed.
17 A I was communications director up
18 until about Memorial day 1993. I was senior
19 advisor from 1993 through December 31st,
20 1996.
21 Q What were your duties and
22 responsibilities as communications director?
149
1 A I managed the communications staff.
2 I did press briefings. I was an advisor to
3 the president.
4 Q Did you have the job that Mike
5 McCurry has now? Was that subsumed in your
6 job at that time?
7 A We had a separate press secretary,
8 Dee Dee Myers, but for a period of time I did
9 do the daily press briefing.
10 Q Advisor to the President, what did
11 that job entail?
12 A Whatever came up. I advised the
13 President on matters of policy and politics.
14 Q What was meant by policy?
15 A Different policy issues; the
16 budget, NAFTA, gays in the military, those
17 kinds of issues.
18 Q What was meant by politics?
19 A Every -- well, all matters of
20 policy tend to have a political implication.
21 You may choose to ignore the political
22 consequences, but they certainly all have a
150
1 political effect. It was part of my job to
2 analyze what that effect would be.
3 Q If there was an issue a controversy
4 or scandal, whatever you want to call it,
5 would you advise the President on those
6 issues as part of the ordinary course of your
7 duties in your first job as communications
8 director?
9 A Well, without using your words, I
10 would, generally, advise him on all issues
11 that would reach a level of high public
12 interest.
13 Q Which would include things like
14 Whitewater and Filegate and those kinds of
15 things?
16 A Sometimes, although I wasn't an
17 attorney, so I didn't deal with the legal
18 matters.
19 Q But you gave him your policy and
20 political advice?
21 A Generally, in those matters most of
22 it is really -- is advice about how to